Chattanoogan: An Interview With UTC's Author/ Scholar Ken Smith

  • Wednesday, November 26, 2003
  • Jay Mouton
Ken Smith
Ken Smith

Ken Smith has been teaching creative writing at the University of Tennessee, Chattanooga over 20 years now; he's been a writer for a much longer period of time.

I spent an evening with Ken meandering through some of the highlights of his life spent as a writer and a teacher leading others into one of the most unpredictable and competitive of vocations.

Ken has published many short stories over the years that include two complete collections of those stories. He is consistently at the center of the Meacham Writer's Workshop that takes place twice a year at Chattanooga State. Ken's collections include: "Decoys and Other Stories" and "Angels and Others." Both books are available at the UTC bookstore or by e-mailing Ken at Kenneth-Smith@utc.edu.

Interview:

Mouton:

So, Ken Smith, tell me all about your past.

Smith:

I appreciate that you seem to want to know a great deal about my memories, my past as a writer. I have to tell you that until I was 17 or 18, I was certain that I was going to be second baseman for some major league team.

Mouton:

You were a ballplayer?


Smith:

Writing was not a priority.

(Ken and I both share a laugh over the more athletic beginning of his life as a writer)

Mouton:

A glimpse into your first memories of creativity to come?


Smith:

My cousin Bobby and I started using an 8mm camera to film these plays we would write and we would force our parents to watch them. Heros and villains, that sort of thing. At the time I was living in Globe, Arizona. My brother and I had a horse which was stabled near our home and we would use the horse in these movies. We would use ketchup and one of us, or a friend would ride by and we'd shoot with our rifles. Someone would be dressed like an Indian, somebody might be an outlaw. The Indian or outlaw would be riding this horse, get shot, and then fall off. Then we would use a slow motion camera shot to show all the blood and guts and.

Mouton:

So this was a form of telling a story for you?


Smith:

Right. But, at that time, it never occurred to me to be a writer. I had went on to college. I became a journalist.

Mouton:

When did you go to college?


Smith:

I attended college for 2 1/2 years and then volunteered for the Navy and spent 5 years in the service. I finished my undergraduate degree when I got out. The college gave me some credit for my Navy time and I went to work for a newspaper while I was finishing up my BA. It's a great job.

Mouton:

The newspaper work?


Smith:

Right. It was a good experience for a young man. Here, at the University, you write a story or a piece of nonfiction, even if you're lucky enough to get it accepted with the first editor you send it to it's going to be a year before it sees print. In the news business, you write this really interesting line about a bartender who took this shotgun away from a would be robber--anything--and when you do a good job it's in next day's paper with your byline.

Mouton:

Instant gratification?


Smith:

Yeah. It's great. It's a really interesting job.

Mouton:

You're from New Mexico?


Smith:

Yes, I was born there. Silver City. I lived there until I was 9. All of my aunts, uncles, cousins still live around there.

Mouton:

You lived in the Southwest until you went into the Navy?


Smith:

Oh yeah, up until the Navy.

Mouton:

A great deal of younger writers, and readers for that matter, like to know where a writer grew up. Maybe what images, social customs, all that stuff. They want to know how it may have affected the writer and his work.


Smith:

I was born in Silver City, but I consider myself from Globe, about 3 hours distant. My grandparents lived there so we were all pretty close. Our ties.

Mouton:

Close family?


Smith:

Yeah. Very close.

Mouton:

Did you have any family members that were, say creative? Writers? Artists?


Smith:

Sure. Yeah, I've an aunt who was an excellent artist. I wish she'd have painted more. My father was an amazing carpenter which is an art in itself.

Mouton:

Do you think of creativity as being handed down? Like biologically? DNA?


Smith:

I don't know.

(Ken is shaking his head a little)

I don't know about that. I do know that my father was a great reader. He read all the time. Jay, he could take the blueprint for a fairly good-sized house. I don't mean just straight beams of wood, but the nook's and valley's of a house. Take a couple of saw-horses and a piece of plywood and plan and cut every rafter on that house. You've got to be able to see things upside-down to do that. Then he would hand up the pieces and my brother and I would nail them into place. It was amazing to me.

Mouton:

Father and mother influence of creativity, then?


Smith:

Sure.

Mouton:

Did you major in English? Writing?


Smith:

Oh, I changed majors several times.

Mouton:

So, what was your first major?


Smith:

Well, it finally occurred to me that I wanted to write and the only thing that I felt I could make a living from was journalism. So, I switched my major to journalism.

Mouton:

From what major?

(Ken is grinning at me)


Smith:

Animal Husbandry.

(Much laughter from my area of operation and Ken is smiling at my surprise)

I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you, Ken.

(I've regained some composure)

Mouton:

So did you read a Hemingway story? What moved you to try to get a job writing for a newspaper?


Smith:

Well, I read a great deal. When I was just about ready to graduate I took an introduction to creative writing course, similar to the one we have here (UTC). I really liked it so I decided I wanted to pursue that. Well, the University of Arizona was much smaller then than it is today so I applied to the MFA program in creative writing. Well, the powers that be said "We don't want this guy in here, he's the unwashed and his degree's in journalism." So they found me "deficient" and they wanted to have me make up 18 hours in literature courses. I was admitted "conditionally." Well, it seems that I had read, virtually, everything they offered in the literature course work in every class I took. So, after 12 hours of straight A work in the literature courses they waived the remaining credit hours and admitted me, without "deficiency" into the program.

Mouton:

How old were you when you attended the MFA program?


Smith:

I was 32 years old.

Mouton:

This must have been sometime around the end of the Vietnam War?


Smith:

Yes. I was in the Navy. I was serving off the coast of Vietnam on a Navel Carrier involved in Search and Rescue operations. Basically, combat support. I was a pilot. My job might be to fly a priest out to a destroyer to say a mass. Or maybe pick up some kid off one of the ships that might need to see a doctor or dentist. It was an interesting experience to say the least.

Mouton:

When you were back in the states and attending college were you writing?


Smith:
Oh yeah, the entire time.

Mouton:

Did you publish while still in school?


Smith:

I had a story accepted by Tri-Quarterly. It was big deal to me as there was a great deal of competition. I felt a good deal of the competition was damaging to a degree, but the best thing about the program was that I was surrounded by people that were just as compassionate about writing as I was. And, I learned more from the students--as in most good programs.

Mouton:

Any names I might recognize? Writers that studied with you?


Smith:

Let's see, a number of writers and teachers of writing. Steven Schwartz, Kevin McLeroy. A Pulitzer Prize winner this year, Richard Russo. I'll admit to being a little envious (Ken is smiling). We all attended the program around the same time.

Mouton:

So, you received a good deal of experience while attending this program?


Smith:

Sure. The acceptance of the story at Tri-Quarterly won me a chance to teach two classes in creative writing while I was still attending my MFA program. It was my last Spring Semester and instead of teaching composition classes I taught the creative writing students. I enjoyed it, gained some valuable experience and it looked good on my record.

Mouton:

Was your first published story reviewed?


Smith:

I don't remember reading any reviews on that single story. Reviews tend to follow the publication of book length works. Short story collections.

Mouton:

First story published, you've wrapped up your MFA, and then?


Smith:

I did not end up in teaching immediately. I worked just over a year as a tutor for athletes at the University. I was barely subsisting at this time working with these student athletes with their writing in the writing lab. My first academic job came along at a University in Kentucky. I landed a position as assistant professor. I had two classes of freshman composition and two classes of creative writing. I was there 4 years.

Mouton:

Did you continue to publish while you were teaching in Kentucky?


Smith:

My first collection of short stories was published during my time there. "Decoys and Other Stories."

Mouton:

Decent reviews?


Smith:

It's been such a long time, well over 20 years. As I recall a number of the reviews were fairly good. My life didn't change a whole lot. Nobody made a movie out of the book, not quite like a novel. I was writing a good deal at the time and, like most writers, experiencing my share of rejections. You might be amazed at the persistence it takes. A good friend of mine that attended the program with me told me along the time my second book came out, "It's good to know a man that has more ass than the publishing industry has teeth." (laughter from the two of us) I do know that nobody is going to publish your stories if you don't ask them to. A writer has to submit his work.

Mouton:

Is this about the time you arrived at UTC?


Smith:

Maybe a year or so after my first book was published. I believe this was in 1986. Then it was 6 more years before I published another book. I kept submitting work and getting stories published during this time. I was working in the novel form as well.

Mouton:

Do you do any readings of your work, Ken?

Smith:

When asked, I do. I'm going to be 59 this year and I don't travel as well as I used to. So, I don't go as much as I used to go. I've given a number of readings at colleges and universities primarily in the South. A couple of more recent might be the Bread Loaf Writer's Conference, I gave a reading at Vanderbilt, and, of course, the Meacham Writer's Workshop. I suspect I may allow more time for readings after I retire, but at this time I've been devoting to writing, teaching and the like.

Mouton:

Is fiction your primary interest as a writer? I know that you are currently teaching a creative nonfiction class. You've mentioned you believe this to be a growing field of interest. How about your interest?

Smith:

Oh yes, right.

Mouton:

Do you apply any standard of rules for your writing? Like a particular time you write? Do you wait for "the muse?"

Smith:

Right. I do, but it gets messed up sometimes.

Mouton:

Real Life enters the picture? What about the kinds of stories you writer? Any particular type of fiction? Mainstream? I've read a couple of your stories, let's see..."Meat," was one. Another about a young marine having a drink at a bar off base and he meets up with this woman that is with another man, but she seems to enjoy the role of a flirt--I liked that one as well.

What about your fiction?

Smith:

I would say most of my stories take place in the part of the country that I grew up in. I've been working on a novel about the old west. I would say most of my stories take place in contemporary times, but I've a few that take place a number of years ago. One during The Depression, that's a few years back. Somebody, somebody in an article a few years ago called me a "Meat and Potatos" kind of writer. I took it as a compliment.

Mouton:

That's a good definition, I believe that was a compliment.

Smith:

Now, in my latest collection, "Angels and Others" the stories are set from about the Korean War on. In fact, that one does contain the story set during The Depression.

Mouton:

So, would you call yourself a liar or a fiction writer?

Smith:

Both. (laughter from both of us) Yes, I suppose my writing would be considered contemporary in content.

Mouton:

I heard you quote Robert Frost a couple of months ago. Something about no writer writes a poem for practice. He writes the poem and if it does not work, then it's an exercise? What about you? What about when you write?

Smith:

Yeah, I tend to agree with that. Writing is hard work. One has life to contend with away from and apart from the writing. I don't spend time Practicing writing--I write.

Mouton:

That's great advice. Can I steal that quote from you? Would that make me a writer who is a liar and a thief?

Smith:

T.S. Elliot says that's ok, too. (much laughter)

Mouton:

Ken, do you consider writing a pleasurable activity? I don't know, when you get "in the zone?"

Smith:

Oh, sure! You get so lost in the story. In fact, I think one reason I've been working with the novel is that it's so seductive Every day, or at least every writing day, I get to go back into that different world. Short stories don't last that long. I've spent 6 years working on this novel. The western. I get so lost in the story, the adventure of it. I'm not sure I would call it pleasure--it's damn hard work, but, again the element of seduction.

Mouton:

What about revision of work? You are an advocate of intensive revision, right?


Smith:

Right. And, that's changed over the years. When I was a very, young writer I just hated revision. But, it is necessary and it allows the writer to make a story better than "ok." Take a sentence that's just "ok" and make it shine.

Mouton:

Do you feel some writers might fall into a habit of over revising? Taking too much of the essence of a story out of it with too much attention to grammar, structure and the like?


Smith:

I don't really see that as a problem. Most writer's have a sense about that. I suppose it can be developed to a degree. I don't see a lot of students revising the heart, the life out of a story--it just doesn't happen. With most students I would have to say that the revision process virtually always improves from the initial work.

Mouton:

Any students you've worked with out there publishing now?


Smith:

Sure, that's a nice thing about teaching and keeping up with some of your students. Phil Deaver, teaching down in Florida, recently won a Flannery O'Conner award. LuAnne Smith, recently published a chapbook of her work. Sandy Moore, a writer here in Tennessee, published a novel called "Private Woods" about a woman's take on things during the Vietnam War. I've been very blessed in that a number of my students have gone on to become writers and accomplished writers at that.

Mouton:

Any preference between writing and teaching?


Smith:

Well, I really like teaching and I hope that shows. I was also the beneficiary of some excellent teaching at both the undergraduate and graduate level. It's very necessary. I might not call it teaching as much as simply allowing the student to learn what he or she wants to. People do ask, "if you wrote a Bestseller would you continue to teach?" My answer is yes, but not nearly as much.

Mouton:

Was there every a time that you simply thought to yourself, "Now, I'm a Writer?"


Smith:

I would say that thought was more gradual for me. I suffer the same fears every other writer suffers that attempts a writing career--I don't even like the word "career." I'm not sure I'm a writer yet, but that feeling when you get published, sure, it's a great feeling. You've got to remember that most writers are going to experience a great deal of rejections. That's part of the writing life. There are very few writers out there that have virtually everything they submit accepted and published. The Joyce Carol Oates and John Irvings are few. Very few places are going to publish things that are "not good," and we all write things that are "not good." Sometimes we don't see it, but it happens.

Mouton:

You've been teaching well over 20 years now. Do you find any trends occurring out in the academic setting that concerns the growth of creative writing? Genre's?


Smith:

One thing that's going to affect the
way one teaches is the way one is taught in the first place. I'm a firm believer that people who say workshops only produce "workshop stories" are missing something. I believe the workshop method is effective and can help promote some good writers and some good work. I think an element of workshop application might be in teaching or showing a student how not to write. If I can teach you how not to write, I believe that I'm on the right track, if I'm trying to teach you how to write, you'd best be on guard.

Mouton:

Well put. How do you feel about the growing interest in creative nonfiction?


Smith:

I'm pleased, very pleased. While the short story, as a form, is still very popular, I'm observing that trend in creative nonfiction. Just check out the Fiction Writer's Market and you can see the hundreds of magazines seeking short fiction. More and more of those very magazines are looking for creative nonfiction pieces. The novel is still popular and will likely be for a long time to come.

Mouton:

Any of your stories that you might term favorites?

(Ken is grinning as he ponders)


Smith:

That's a really tough question. I published some short stories when I was younger that were quite weak, but I'm not ashamed of them because they were the best that I could do at that point. If I had not thought them the best I could do at the time I wouldn't have sent them around. I wouldn't have submitted them. But, there are still a few that I'm very fond of. My theory on short story collections is that there is a sort of sameness about them. The books cohere, stories speak to each other in ways that my work simply doesn't do. I don't see a collection of short stories as having to go or fit together. I think a lot of poetry collections are presented that way. Presented with a common thread. My feelings are that in the best collections, and I'll add my feelings toward my own collections, each story will stand out as distinct from another. Different. I would say that if you read one of my short stories and really liked it, and then bought one of my books, you might be disappointed--hopefully not, but the possibility is there. Each story stands on its own.

Mouton:

Anything you might find interesting about the actual "sit down and write" aspect of the writing life?


Smith:

I would say it's pretty ritualistic. I always work in my office at home. It's a basement office. There are no windows, no distractions, no phone. I'm, pretty much, lost in my little cave. The isolation is important to me while I'm writing. I've been using a computer for a number of years now, since about 1986. I was writer in residence at Vanderbilt for a semester and the only thing I could find to write on was an old, electric typewriter so I suppose I reverted back to that for a short time. I actually finished the last couple of stories for my last book on that big, old typewriter. Hugh. It was huge. When I came back home I had to re-learn writing on my computer. It was really hard to adapt to writing first drafts of work on the computer. It took about a year. The computer is a great tool for revision. I can't say enough for them concerning revision. My revision process is simple in the basic technique. I print out a copy of a first draft and start my revisions on that copy with pen and then get back on the computer and get busy with that. So I'll recommend the computer as a writing tool for anyone, it's an important aid in my writing. The computer does something else I find important. It lets you take chances. I'm working on a draft of a story and page 6 of a 20 page story a new sentence, a new image comes to my mind. The image is new, I'm not sure I can trust it. I can put it in, and if I decide tomorrow that I don't like it, I can go back to page 6 and retype it. The computer allows me to put that change in, and then wake up the next morning and zap it if I want to and it doesn't take any time at all. I believe it allows us to take more of those creative chances and we do not have to do as much of that hard work of retyping a whole story. Back to what you asked me earlier about revising "too much?" Well, I believe that that's less likely to occur if the writer can take a look at the work--read it out loud. Hear the story. Of course, it's a great help with construction, with fixing grammatical aspects of the work.

Mouton:

When is a writer ready to publish?


Smith:

Again, it's a great rush, a great feeling to see that first story in print, Lord knows we will receive enough rejection. Acceptance is always nice. Publication tells the writer, "you matter."

Mouton:

Ken, are most of your friends writers?


Smith:

Some. I've friends here, writers. Absolutely friends from all walks. Chris Buckley, one of my greatest friends. He teaches out in Santa Barbara. He's a poet. I met him at Murray when I was in Kentucky. Earl Braggs, right here at UTC--an excellent poet--we've become very, close friends and our families are close. I still have an excellent friendship with a friend from high school, Frank Sanchez. We call each other "Hermano," which means brother--we're still very close.
Mouton:

What are you working on at this time? A novel.


Smith:

Most of my current work is with creative nonfiction at this time, I really enjoy it.

Mouton:

I can't end my talk with you and not ask you what you like to read.


Smith:

Oh, plenty of things. Articles a great deal. I like The Atlantic, Newsweek, Playboy has some good articles. Novels, more novels than short stories. All kinds of things.

Mouton:

Favorite writers?


Smith:

Again, plenty of writers I enjoy and admire. Ford Maddox Ford. James Smiley. A good deal of Larry McMurtry's earlier stuff--"The Last Picture Show." I loved Tim O'Brian's "The Things They Carried." I just completed a list for my creative nonfiction class as a few students had inquired about the same thing. I believe there were well over a hundred books listed on that.

Mouton:

New works published? Where can others read some of your stories?


Smith:

More recent publications? The Atlantic. Tri-Quarterly. I had a story that was included in Crazy Horse last year--The Best of 2002.

Mouton:

Any last words? Well, last comments for the readers, that is...


Smith:

Well, I suppose this is just another irony of life. I don't want it to sound like bs, but every once in a while, just before giving a reading I will be reading a portion of one of my stories. We all want to think our writing is good and our writing keeps improving. We sometimes read a favorite author and think we'll never be that good. But, now and then. Every once in that while, I'll read a sentence or two of my work and I'll think to myself, "that's pretty, damn good."


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