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00:00
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Melvin
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Kellon Nixon was one of the folks that ran for cover last night.
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00:05
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Nixon
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Yes, sir.
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00:05
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Melvin
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Were you here for the protest as well?
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00:07
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Nixon
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Yes, I was here during the rally as well as the march and the protest.
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00:13
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Melvin
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And what happened?
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00:13
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Nixon
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Everything was pretty peaceful from the start. There were a few exceptions, a couple of guys that yelled out some profanities, but when we transitioned from the rally into the march, the cries for peace, the cries for justice, “Don’t shoot, my hands are up,” those things overwhelmed those things. We marched peacefully. There were really no problems. The police and the people were unified. When we made it to the ending point at the old courthouse, a few guys spoke, and there were some cheers, there were some claps, but there were also some guys that were near to the speakers and to the organizers that were yelling profanities at the police. I decided from that point it was time for myself and my son to leave. When we left …
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01:02
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Melvin
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Let me see if I can get this straight. The march itself was peaceful. When the speaking started, there seemed to be some tension between some of the folks who were standing there and some of the speakers?
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01:11
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Nixon
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Let me be clear. When the speaking started, no, there wasn’t any problem. When we got close to the end, I think some guys that weren’t a part of the organization, that were not with the speakers, made their way to the front, and they were saying some things, but there was still no tension between the police …
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01:30
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Melvin
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Things like [unclear], things like …
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01:33
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Nixon
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Like “F the police.”
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01:32
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Melvin
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Okay.
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01:34
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Nixon
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Like “F the police.”
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01:35
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Melvin
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Okay. Did the police respond at all?
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01:35
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Nixon
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No, there was no response from the police. When I heard those things, I decided, I think it’s in the best interest of myself and my son to go ahead and leave, just in case. As we got to Jackson and Commerce, right here, crossing the street there, the shots began. We ran across the street, and they were firing shots, and myself … You probably can’t see it from here … and a police officer and my son, we ducked behind the sign for a couple of seconds then. As the shots stopped for just a little bit, I gave a 1-one-thousand, 2-one-thousand count, and we didn’t hear any shots, and so myself and my son, we took off running towards the parking garage where we were parked, and the officer that was next to us, he ran toward the shots. After that, we got to the next stoplight, about there, and there were some people, they were just terrified, actually hyperventilating and crying, and I literally had to stop and say, “You better run, they’re actually shooting,” and she kind of came to, and she started to run as well, but, all in all, I hate that this is what actually will be remembered, that this is what people will remember, that the worst of people will give us a perception of our people. It is just horrible that we have so many stereotypes. I stereotype police. Police stereotype me. That is where all the hatred comes from, but in all honesty, if we could get past our stereotypes, I think we’d be a lot better. If we could …
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03:07
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Melvin
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Amen to that. How are you today?
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03:10
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Nixon
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Today, I think I’m recovering spiritually today.
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03:16
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Melvin
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What do you mean by that?
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03:16
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Nixon
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Last night, when you start to see the shooting and hear the shooting, and you’ve got your son there, and your main concern is “I better get this boy home to his mother. She’s going to kill me. You start to think, “It’s me against the world.” And with that type of mentality, we will implode as a people. We will implode, not as an ethnicity as a people, but I mean as a people, period. We are all one race at the end of the day. If we get a me-against-the-world mentality … Last night, I was thinking, “Maybe it’s not ‘Black lives matter’ or ‘All lives matter,’ maybe it’s just “My life matters.” Maybe it’s just “My family’s life matters,” and I had to recover from that spiritually. I had to be reminded that God hadn’t given us a spirit of fear, but a power of love and a sound mind. I had to be reminded that love conquers all, because if I let that mentality overwhelm me, then who can I help, and how can I teach him? How can I raise him?
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04:11
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Melvin
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What did you … How old is he?
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04:12
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Nixon
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He’s 5.
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04:13
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Melvin
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What’s his name?
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04:13
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Nixon
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Elijah.
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04:15
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Melvin
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What did you tell Elijah this morning about what happened last night?
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04:19
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Nixon
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We actually talked about it last night. I explained to him that we wanted to be a part of something. We wanted to have our voices, to support Mr. Castile as well as Alton Sterling and the countless African Americans that have died. But then when we began to speak about it, I wanted to let him know that you can’t be afraid of police officers, that you can’t hate police officers, that you can’t judge. The same way you wouldn’t want a man judging you because of the color of your skin, you can’t judge a man because of the color of the uniform that they wear.
I have been in a position where at a point in my life, I sold drugs, and the honest truth is that the mercy that was extended to me was not by other drug dealers, it wasn’t by African American men, but it was by two Anglo-American officers that found me with drugs, and they extended me mercy. And from there, I was able to be a husband, I was able to be a father. I’m a pastor and a preacher now. At the same time, when I’m in a three-piece suit, from the police, I am treated worse than when I was a thug. So it proves to me that everybody is not bad, that everybody wearing a badge is not bad, that every African American is not bad, but we have to change our concepts. We have to change our ideology in this country. We are so segregated in everything. We are segregated in our schools still. We are segregated in our religion. We are segregated in churches. And it destroys us.
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05:45
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Melvin
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How would you characterize the relationship here in Dallas, between the police and the policed.
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05:50
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Nixon
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The police and the policed.
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05:53
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Melvin
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The police and the people.
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05:53
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Nixon
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Honestly, I wouldn’t say it’s a love relationship, but I will be completely honest. I don’t think that we have a problem with police brutality in Dallas, until now. I am afraid … I am not afraid, but I am more reluctant when I deal with an officer now, and I blame the accused. I blame the killer. I don’t blame the police. I would approach me the same way after what happened last night. But I don’t think that we have had a bad relationship with officers. Of course there are bad seeds in everything.
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06:25
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Melvin
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Right. As you were running last night, as you were ducking for cover, as you were trying to get your boy home to his mother, as you said, what was going through your mind?
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06:33
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Nixon
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Why? What is this going to prove? Really what went through my mind is, we just set ourselves back 50 years, and any amount of progress that we may have made from marching, from assembling peacefully …
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06:48
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Melvin
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“We” being black people.
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06:48
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Nixon
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“We” being black people. Not even just black people. “We” being humans. We just set ourselves back, because now the racism increases. Now the hatred increases. Now the segregation increases. Now there is a sense of proof that this group is this, and this group is that. There is an evidence, and there is a reason for the way that I feel, for the way that I think.
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07:14
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Melvin
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So how do we get past it? How do we go from … Not just here in Dallas … But after the vigils, after the marches, what do we do?
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07:28
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Nixon
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That’s tough. My first answer, my heart’s answer, my spirit’s answer is … We have to be a Christian nation. We have to be governed by a higher authority. We can see what us governing ourselves has proved, and what it’s shown. We have to be governed by a higher authority, but that would, in turn, take for America to admit that she is a hypocrite. That would take for America to really do some soul-searching and say, “We weren’t a Christian nation, we’ve never been a Christian nation. It’s hypocritical for us to say that we were a Christian nation and Frederick Douglass was a slave. How can these individuals call themselves Christians and say that they believe in Christ. So it is very difficult, but I think that the best thing that we can do is to value lives over the economy. I think that’s one of our biggest problems in America, that our economy is stronger than our moral fiber. Our desire for prosperity is so much greater than our desire to be moral, to be humane, to love, to care, that we will risk our children, we will risk the sanctity of marriage or anything just for money, just to stay on top as a nation. What we don’t understand, I think, is that when we lose our heart, when we lose our souls, we are really the bottom, we are really the worst of people, no matter how materially rich we are.
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08:52
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Melvin
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Kellon Nixon, we needed this.
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08:54
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Nixon
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Yes, sir.
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08:54
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Melvin
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Thank you.
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08:55
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Nixon
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Thank you.
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08:55
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Melvin
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I am going to let you get … He has lost interest in our conversation.
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08:59
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Nixon
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Of course.
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* * *
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I will let you get him out of here. Thank you again.
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